cmaier
Apr 19, 02:35 PM
Yes. People here are failing to understand the difference between traditional patents that we usually hear about here, and design patents. I believe what Apple is suing over is infringed design patents.
7 utility patents and 3 design patents, plus 3 trade dress registrations and a bunch (7? i forget) trademark registrations, plus some unregistered state-law unfair competition/trademark stuff.
7 utility patents and 3 design patents, plus 3 trade dress registrations and a bunch (7? i forget) trademark registrations, plus some unregistered state-law unfair competition/trademark stuff.
Multimedia
Jul 21, 12:20 PM
It really depends on your application.
On the desktop, if you're a typical user that's just interested in web surfing, playing music files, organizing your photo collection, etc., more than two cores will probably not be too useful. For these kinds of users, even two cores may be overkill, but two are useful for keeping a responsive UI when an application starts hogging all the CPU time.
If you start using higher-power applications (like video work - iMovie/iDVD, for instance) then more cores will speed up that kind of work (assuming the app is properly multithreaded, of course.) 4-core systems will definitely benefit this kind of user.
With current applications, however, I don't think more than 4 cores will be useful. The kind of work that will make 8 cores useful is the kinds that requires expensive professional software - which most people don't use...
Cluster computing has similar benefits. With 8 cores in each processor, it is almost as good as having 8 times as many computers in the cluster, and a lot less expensive. This concept will scale up as the number of cores increases, assuming motherbaords can be designed with enough memory and FSB bandwidth to keep them all busy.
I think we might see a single quad-core chip in consumer systems, like the iMac. I think it is likely that we'll see them in Pro systems, like the Mac Pro (including a high-end model with two quad-core chips.)
I think processors with more than 4 cores will never be seen outside of servers - Xserves and maybe some configurations of Mac Pro. Mostly because that's where there is a need for this kind of power.I strongly disagree. I could use 16 cores right now for notihng more than simple consumer electronics video compression routines. There will be a Mac Pro with 8 cores this Winter 2007.
You are completely blind to the need for many cores right now for very simple stupid work. All I want to do is run 4 copies of Toast while running 4 copies of Handbrake simultaneously. Each wants 2 cores or more. So you are not thinking of the current need for 16 cores already.
This is not even beginning to discuss how many Final Cut Studio Editors need 16 Cores. Man, I can't believe you wrote that. I think you are overlooking the obvious - the need to run multiple copies of today's applicaitons simultaneously.
So as long as the heat issue can be overcome, I don't see why 8 Cores can't belong inside an iMac by the end of 2008.
I apologize if I read a little hot. But I find the line of thought that 4 or 8 Cores are enough or more than enough to really annoy me. They are not nearly enough for those of us who see the problem of not enough cores EVERY DAY. The rest of you either have no imagination or are only using your Macs for word processing, browsing and email.
I am sincerely frustrated by not having enough cores to do simple stupid work efficiently. Just look at how crippled this G5 Quad is already only running three things. They can't even run full speed due to lack of cores.
On the desktop, if you're a typical user that's just interested in web surfing, playing music files, organizing your photo collection, etc., more than two cores will probably not be too useful. For these kinds of users, even two cores may be overkill, but two are useful for keeping a responsive UI when an application starts hogging all the CPU time.
If you start using higher-power applications (like video work - iMovie/iDVD, for instance) then more cores will speed up that kind of work (assuming the app is properly multithreaded, of course.) 4-core systems will definitely benefit this kind of user.
With current applications, however, I don't think more than 4 cores will be useful. The kind of work that will make 8 cores useful is the kinds that requires expensive professional software - which most people don't use...
Cluster computing has similar benefits. With 8 cores in each processor, it is almost as good as having 8 times as many computers in the cluster, and a lot less expensive. This concept will scale up as the number of cores increases, assuming motherbaords can be designed with enough memory and FSB bandwidth to keep them all busy.
I think we might see a single quad-core chip in consumer systems, like the iMac. I think it is likely that we'll see them in Pro systems, like the Mac Pro (including a high-end model with two quad-core chips.)
I think processors with more than 4 cores will never be seen outside of servers - Xserves and maybe some configurations of Mac Pro. Mostly because that's where there is a need for this kind of power.I strongly disagree. I could use 16 cores right now for notihng more than simple consumer electronics video compression routines. There will be a Mac Pro with 8 cores this Winter 2007.
You are completely blind to the need for many cores right now for very simple stupid work. All I want to do is run 4 copies of Toast while running 4 copies of Handbrake simultaneously. Each wants 2 cores or more. So you are not thinking of the current need for 16 cores already.
This is not even beginning to discuss how many Final Cut Studio Editors need 16 Cores. Man, I can't believe you wrote that. I think you are overlooking the obvious - the need to run multiple copies of today's applicaitons simultaneously.
So as long as the heat issue can be overcome, I don't see why 8 Cores can't belong inside an iMac by the end of 2008.
I apologize if I read a little hot. But I find the line of thought that 4 or 8 Cores are enough or more than enough to really annoy me. They are not nearly enough for those of us who see the problem of not enough cores EVERY DAY. The rest of you either have no imagination or are only using your Macs for word processing, browsing and email.
I am sincerely frustrated by not having enough cores to do simple stupid work efficiently. Just look at how crippled this G5 Quad is already only running three things. They can't even run full speed due to lack of cores.
yoak
Apr 12, 01:14 PM
+1
I posted it over in the other FCS thread after learning of the link here. Thanks
I posted it over in the other FCS thread after learning of the link here. Thanks
Silentwave
Jul 15, 05:55 PM
Too many people are complaining about rumored information that isn't even reliable, and most likely incorrect.
I agree with you whole-heartedly!
The one question I do have is why is the Mac Pro the last to make this transition, why has it taken so long? Is it simply due to chip availability, is it due to some radical new design, or is it because the Mac Pro is Apple's flagship product and Apple is working long and hard to wedge in some great new technology?
Great new technologies always made their way to the Power Macs first, and then trickled down the line. I have every faith that the Mac Pro will continue this tradition, especially since the Mac Pro will be competing with other high-end Xeon workstations. Apple will need something in the Mac Pro that nobody else has, and it will also need to utilize Intel's fastest chips in order to dispel any notions of the system being weaker than the competition in terms of speed -- this is a dark cloud over the Mac that finally needs to be cleared.
You hit the nail right on the head with the processor availability. Core Duo uses the pentium M architecture and was only in two versions: mobile, codename Yonah with its variants, and a pair of low speed ultra low power server chips- Sossaman- only going up to 2GHz with 2MB L2 and 667 FSB. the other Xeons (Paxville/Dempsey) and high end chips like the Pentium D/Pentium Extreme Edition ( Smithfield/Presler) are all using NetBurst architecutre, which is obsolete and very inefficient plus they are extremely power hungry and hot.The top Pentium Extreme Edition Presler dual core at 3.73GHz was easily outperformed by several of the Conroe cores- I recall one test where it was neck and neck with the 1.83GHz Core 2 Duo.
They wanted the fastest chips possible using the best architecture possible- that is Woodcrest and Conroe with the Core microarchitecture.
I have little doubt that the 3GHz Xeon 5160 will be in the Mac Pros, if not standard, then as a BTO option.
I agree with you whole-heartedly!
The one question I do have is why is the Mac Pro the last to make this transition, why has it taken so long? Is it simply due to chip availability, is it due to some radical new design, or is it because the Mac Pro is Apple's flagship product and Apple is working long and hard to wedge in some great new technology?
Great new technologies always made their way to the Power Macs first, and then trickled down the line. I have every faith that the Mac Pro will continue this tradition, especially since the Mac Pro will be competing with other high-end Xeon workstations. Apple will need something in the Mac Pro that nobody else has, and it will also need to utilize Intel's fastest chips in order to dispel any notions of the system being weaker than the competition in terms of speed -- this is a dark cloud over the Mac that finally needs to be cleared.
You hit the nail right on the head with the processor availability. Core Duo uses the pentium M architecture and was only in two versions: mobile, codename Yonah with its variants, and a pair of low speed ultra low power server chips- Sossaman- only going up to 2GHz with 2MB L2 and 667 FSB. the other Xeons (Paxville/Dempsey) and high end chips like the Pentium D/Pentium Extreme Edition ( Smithfield/Presler) are all using NetBurst architecutre, which is obsolete and very inefficient plus they are extremely power hungry and hot.The top Pentium Extreme Edition Presler dual core at 3.73GHz was easily outperformed by several of the Conroe cores- I recall one test where it was neck and neck with the 1.83GHz Core 2 Duo.
They wanted the fastest chips possible using the best architecture possible- that is Woodcrest and Conroe with the Core microarchitecture.
I have little doubt that the 3GHz Xeon 5160 will be in the Mac Pros, if not standard, then as a BTO option.
LethalWolfe
Apr 10, 01:17 PM
Oh boo hoo about the companies being "booted" from sponsorships. The company I work for goes to trade shows. The time invested is actually quite small and most of the materials are in inventory anyway. The presentations are usually based on the same script. I bet the companies aren't that disappointed. In fact they would like to be there and see what Apple is up to more than anyone else. So I bet they'll send the same presenter staff there to view and record anything of note to send back to their company.
Maybe NAB is a different beast than what you and your company typically deal with? The big players at NAB can spend millions and take the better part of the year getting ready (both from a marketing and product development standpoint). At least that's the gist of what I read when Avid and later Apple, bailed on NAB in years past citing a lack of ROI for all the money, man power and artificial product deadlines it took to present at NAB every year.
I used to come to Macrumors to read about Mac news, but now its all anit-apple crap.
You come to Macrumors to read about Mac news...:D
This is a little more out there but my friend has a theory that Apple has let Kevin Smith use the new Final Cut to cut and make his new film that is coming it.
That would be kinda weird since Avid brought in Kevin Smith to talk at NAB this year.
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8G4 Safari/6533.18.5)
So Avid, Adobe and Canon spent 10 months preparing for a lecture at a FCP users group? And a FCP users group was going to be their main/only avenue for presentation? I think not. This is just another spot they will advertise at during NAB. I'm sure Avid will be at Adobe and Adobe at Avid user groups. FCP just decided to present at NAB at the last second and this was their only in.
Main or only venue? No. Signature event to get quality face time w/their target audience away from the insane cattle call that is the NAB showroom floor? Yes. Avid hosting Kevin Smith is not an everyday occurrence. Canon presenting Philip Bloom was schedule for only the SuperMeet. Same with Alexis Van Hurkman's talk about color grading.
Lethal
Maybe NAB is a different beast than what you and your company typically deal with? The big players at NAB can spend millions and take the better part of the year getting ready (both from a marketing and product development standpoint). At least that's the gist of what I read when Avid and later Apple, bailed on NAB in years past citing a lack of ROI for all the money, man power and artificial product deadlines it took to present at NAB every year.
I used to come to Macrumors to read about Mac news, but now its all anit-apple crap.
You come to Macrumors to read about Mac news...:D
This is a little more out there but my friend has a theory that Apple has let Kevin Smith use the new Final Cut to cut and make his new film that is coming it.
That would be kinda weird since Avid brought in Kevin Smith to talk at NAB this year.
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8G4 Safari/6533.18.5)
So Avid, Adobe and Canon spent 10 months preparing for a lecture at a FCP users group? And a FCP users group was going to be their main/only avenue for presentation? I think not. This is just another spot they will advertise at during NAB. I'm sure Avid will be at Adobe and Adobe at Avid user groups. FCP just decided to present at NAB at the last second and this was their only in.
Main or only venue? No. Signature event to get quality face time w/their target audience away from the insane cattle call that is the NAB showroom floor? Yes. Avid hosting Kevin Smith is not an everyday occurrence. Canon presenting Philip Bloom was schedule for only the SuperMeet. Same with Alexis Van Hurkman's talk about color grading.
Lethal
miketcool
Jul 20, 09:50 AM
You realize there are probably only four people on this board who are old enough to get that joke, right?
My quadra still runs, I guess I'm the forth party to get it.
This feels almost like an onion article:
Home Computer Gives Birth to Octuple-Cores
<enter photoshopped picture of a Mac Pro craddling its new born octuplets>
My quadra still runs, I guess I'm the forth party to get it.
This feels almost like an onion article:
Home Computer Gives Birth to Octuple-Cores
<enter photoshopped picture of a Mac Pro craddling its new born octuplets>
cjkihlbom
Aug 15, 11:54 AM
I'm so glad I ordered the 3 Ghz, almost as fast as the Quad G5 in Photoshop is insane!
rdowns
Apr 28, 05:57 PM
all want to know is was why it always has to go to name calling..be it..wacko christians, teabaggers or racists conservatives..it seems like every thread any of the liberals on the forum posts always goes to calling names at whatever group it is that they have a problem with today.
I'm not a liberal but those sound like apt descriptions of some of the people who call themselves Republicans/Tea Party/Conservative. I long for the Republican Party my family supported.
I'm not a liberal but those sound like apt descriptions of some of the people who call themselves Republicans/Tea Party/Conservative. I long for the Republican Party my family supported.
Multimedia
Jul 21, 01:51 PM
Yes, with the possibility of a Mac Pro with 8 core on the horizon, it makes sense to skip the 4 core altogether. Or, start with lower end of 4 cores (say 2GHz) and then, if necessary and possible, upgrade it to 8 cores. I wonder if waiting for 8 cores is going to be a common sentiment. In that case, it would make sense for Apple to offer an upgrade path to it.There may be unknown variables supporting 8 cores from 4 such that I would not want to take that path. I would rather have 8 cores on a new motherboard with faster ram etc supported to get the most out of all of them at newer faster speeds.
TheKrillr
Aug 27, 08:19 PM
Not true.
Recent years, updates came right before the end of the promotion.
I didn't know that, thats very good to know. I'm in need of a macbook by the 25th and was afraid i'd have to end up ordering right before the release of Merom.
Recent years, updates came right before the end of the promotion.
I didn't know that, thats very good to know. I'm in need of a macbook by the 25th and was afraid i'd have to end up ordering right before the release of Merom.
Tommyg117
Aug 7, 03:33 PM
anyone else a little underwhelmed with today's WWDC? There isn't anything that really jumped out at me besides the Mac Pro.
trogdor!
Jul 14, 10:20 PM
The current powermac g5's have 1 16x PCI-E slot for the video card along with 2 - 4x and 1 - 8x PCI-E slots. Video cards are about the only thing right now that can even use all 16 lanes of the PCI-E bus. I am not saying future things wont, but thats how it currently stands.
Joe2000
Aug 6, 06:08 AM
What about TV Show downloads in the UK? Pleeeeaaaase!!! :rolleyes:
Looking foward to these Mac Pros though, my Dad is definatley going to buy one. :D
Thanks, Joe.
Looking foward to these Mac Pros though, my Dad is definatley going to buy one. :D
Thanks, Joe.
Astro7x
Apr 6, 11:34 AM
This is Bowl *****!!! Come on man....I see these claims with absolutely NO, ZERO proof to back it up...Links? Pics? Video???? IF anything, MORE people have joined the FCP camp...because more people than EVER are buying Macs! Even though Adobe and Avid are cross platform, the affordability of FCP is a real bonus. Everyone I know that uses FCP and has been using FCP has ZERO interest in flipping. Unless you have an extreme PC...Adobe makes no sense (unless you are using the Quadro nVidia cards in a Mac Pro). Sure, the Merc engine increases performance for a few transitions and filters....but rendering is still necessary in MOST cases! Today's speed of the new Macs....MBP, iMacs, Mac Pros...makes the transition from AVC, XDCam, DVCPro, etc to Pro-Res, is actually a very speedy process. Even Canon stepped up last spring with a plug in to increase transition speed almost a 1,000% (used to take a minute or two to transform...now done in 10 seconds or less!!!). Once in Pro Res, editing is an absolute breeze...a cake walk, easy as pie:) Especially if you have a recent generation Mac from the last couple of years.
Seconding this. And also would like to add... What businesses out there can just switch operating systems on a whim because they latest and greatest came out for another platform? Sure if you are Joe Schmo freelancing out of your house you can do it, but any actual business with existing equipment doesn't just switch like that. I just can't picture anybody going "Damn Apple won't support the Mercury Engine, I'M SWITCHING BACK TO WINDOWS!!!"
Seconding this. And also would like to add... What businesses out there can just switch operating systems on a whim because they latest and greatest came out for another platform? Sure if you are Joe Schmo freelancing out of your house you can do it, but any actual business with existing equipment doesn't just switch like that. I just can't picture anybody going "Damn Apple won't support the Mercury Engine, I'M SWITCHING BACK TO WINDOWS!!!"
chrmjenkins
Mar 22, 02:36 PM
With regards to Libya without the no fly zone there would have been a massacre, and without bombing Gaddafi's troops there isn't much hope of anything other than a stalemate, which is also unideal.
With the rebels on the ground it seems highly unlikely that we'll be in Libya for years to come or anything like that.
The big difference between Libya and Iraq is that in Iraq there wasn't a large insurgence controlling a decent proportion of the country before the troops went in.
Don't forget that we invaded one based on false intelligence. There's no denying what is happening in Libya. A dictator is slaughtering his own people. The fact that UN doesn't pass similar resolutions for all states with a current crisis of this magnitude falls on the UN, not the US.
With the rebels on the ground it seems highly unlikely that we'll be in Libya for years to come or anything like that.
The big difference between Libya and Iraq is that in Iraq there wasn't a large insurgence controlling a decent proportion of the country before the troops went in.
Don't forget that we invaded one based on false intelligence. There's no denying what is happening in Libya. A dictator is slaughtering his own people. The fact that UN doesn't pass similar resolutions for all states with a current crisis of this magnitude falls on the UN, not the US.
Nuck81
Dec 23, 07:39 PM
well im a little stuck. my zonda r isnt fast enough for a lot of the top races, and the newly appointed online dealership has nice cars, but it doesnt rotate between them. so im really waiting for a nice car to come up in the used garage. either that or ill have to save up like 4M for a dealership car
Zonda R is one of the better cars in the game. It will win any race you enter with it if you are able to drive. Add some downforce and lower the throttle sensitivity and it's a little easier to handle.
Zonda R is one of the better cars in the game. It will win any race you enter with it if you are able to drive. Add some downforce and lower the throttle sensitivity and it's a little easier to handle.
kresh
Aug 26, 04:41 AM
If you haven't been reading the comments, it would appear MOST people are complaining about the more recent models. I would agree with most that the Powermac G5's have had serious issues and now recent macbook's... Apple needs to do one of the following ... Higher Quality Assurance testing OR better support cause right now they're missing both.
I'm 40 years old and literally can't remember how many computers I have purchased for personal use. I normally only keep a computer for 5 or 6 months before getting something newer. I know I had to have purchased 50 or 60 computers for personal use.
My very first Apple product was a 1.25GHz G4 Mac Mini. (March 2005 I think) On advice from a friend, I purchased this computer and he helped me over-clock it to 1.58GHz and upgrade to 1GB ram.
I'll be the first to admit that I'm not a power user, but I absolutely love this little computer. It's the best piece of electronics I have ever purchased, and it's the longest time I have ever kept a computer. I just can't imagine using any other operating system, for ANY reason.
My whole household is now all macs, my wife and 4 kids each have one. The 6 mac mini's that we have in our house are unconditionally flawless.
I was going to put my Mini on eBay this weekend and get a MacBook Saturday at the Apple store in Raleigh. I was assuming the MacBook was a Mini in a notebook case, but now I'm scared of doing so. If the MacBook is not as nice and reliable as my mini, I would be extremely upset.
Sorry to ramble on so, but it is really rare for me to find a product, or anything, that has impressed me as much as my Mini has.
After the long story, would any of you really recommend the MacBook vs my Mini (knowing that I love it so)?
I'm 40 years old and literally can't remember how many computers I have purchased for personal use. I normally only keep a computer for 5 or 6 months before getting something newer. I know I had to have purchased 50 or 60 computers for personal use.
My very first Apple product was a 1.25GHz G4 Mac Mini. (March 2005 I think) On advice from a friend, I purchased this computer and he helped me over-clock it to 1.58GHz and upgrade to 1GB ram.
I'll be the first to admit that I'm not a power user, but I absolutely love this little computer. It's the best piece of electronics I have ever purchased, and it's the longest time I have ever kept a computer. I just can't imagine using any other operating system, for ANY reason.
My whole household is now all macs, my wife and 4 kids each have one. The 6 mac mini's that we have in our house are unconditionally flawless.
I was going to put my Mini on eBay this weekend and get a MacBook Saturday at the Apple store in Raleigh. I was assuming the MacBook was a Mini in a notebook case, but now I'm scared of doing so. If the MacBook is not as nice and reliable as my mini, I would be extremely upset.
Sorry to ramble on so, but it is really rare for me to find a product, or anything, that has impressed me as much as my Mini has.
After the long story, would any of you really recommend the MacBook vs my Mini (knowing that I love it so)?
parapup
Apr 6, 10:20 AM
For a programmer dealing with Terminal, Xcode, Netbeans, Eclipse, etc (not graphic intensive softwares), would this macbook air be a better deal than the 13/15" Macbook pro?
Anyone?
Sure if they allow you to bump up the memory to 4GB it should be more than usable especially with the SSD. May be you will need to hook up an external disk for storage needs but apart from that it'll all be good with the i5/7 lineup.
Anyone?
Sure if they allow you to bump up the memory to 4GB it should be more than usable especially with the SSD. May be you will need to hook up an external disk for storage needs but apart from that it'll all be good with the i5/7 lineup.
DakotaGuy
Aug 11, 02:43 PM
Hence cdma is and will always be a small local network that can be used in small pockets on this planet.
I would not consider the entire United States to be just a small pocket on the planet.
I would not consider the entire United States to be just a small pocket on the planet.
starnox
Aug 5, 04:51 PM
Can someone confirm my calculations?
The keynote will start 8PM UK time?
The keynote will start 8PM UK time?
Riemann Zeta
Mar 25, 10:42 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile/8G4)
********. If Apple is really done with Lion, then they should only be charging $29 for it (if that), like 10.6. More confusing scrollbars, tiny window controls and a better graphics/OGL support stack...add in the touch-screen readiness and you might have a quick $29 update.
I suppose, following the iOS model, Apple will likely stop charging anything for Mac OS; the OS features will revolve around new hardware features and/or gimmicks.
********. If Apple is really done with Lion, then they should only be charging $29 for it (if that), like 10.6. More confusing scrollbars, tiny window controls and a better graphics/OGL support stack...add in the touch-screen readiness and you might have a quick $29 update.
I suppose, following the iOS model, Apple will likely stop charging anything for Mac OS; the OS features will revolve around new hardware features and/or gimmicks.
Zwhaler
Aug 27, 03:08 PM
PowerBook G5 next tuesday?
I havn't been here long, but I don't get it. :confused:
I havn't been here long, but I don't get it. :confused:
Laird Knox
Mar 31, 04:16 PM
Ya got to love this guy.... Mr Gloom and doom!
Glad to see the hot selling iPad 2 only has "one" advantage against the non-selling Android tablets. :rolleyes:
So that advantage is that people actually buy them? ;)
Glad to see the hot selling iPad 2 only has "one" advantage against the non-selling Android tablets. :rolleyes:
So that advantage is that people actually buy them? ;)
leekohler
Feb 27, 11:46 PM
Normally, I would say they could fire the guy, but this is just not right. It seems someone was misled and it was not the college. Either way, the church will eventually come to realize just how misguided they are, or not- and go the way of the dinosaur. Either option is fine with me.
