jholzner
Jul 20, 11:23 AM
If you want wild speculation, here goes....
Apple might use the Conroe and ConroeXE in the first Mac Pros and then add in support for Kentsfield (quad) when it becomes available. This could well be the reason why Intel has brought forward the release of Kentsfield.
Somehow I doubt that Intel would change thier roadmap for/because of Apple. They are probably one of their smallest customers :P
Apple might use the Conroe and ConroeXE in the first Mac Pros and then add in support for Kentsfield (quad) when it becomes available. This could well be the reason why Intel has brought forward the release of Kentsfield.
Somehow I doubt that Intel would change thier roadmap for/because of Apple. They are probably one of their smallest customers :P
bonehead
Nov 29, 03:23 AM
Wil universal get what they want?.. Apple is not totally powerless in this potential negotiation but i doubt steve has the power to laugh in their faces. Apple does not make music, it sells it. A seller can hardly laugh in the face of the producer of goods (or the gatekeeper of those goods). Want proof?.. walmart vs apple. Apple makes ipods.. Walmart refused to deal with apple the way apple wanted.. guess who lost in that battle.. walmart of course.. they are merely a seller, apple is the gatekeeper of ipods. The same is with the music studios.. apple is a seller, music companies are the gatekeepers. They can dictate who can and can't sell their music and while every corporation is motivated by profits.. they can always take their music and go home. Sure they lose but so does apple or they can make their music exclusively available only on microsoft service. You might not buy the music but you aren't 300 miliion americans. I gurantee apple does not want to be sitting by idly watching microsoft steal a market they grew. Naw, steve is not laughing in anyone's face.
Any record company is free to make their music exclusively available on a service that is incompatible with 75% of the mp3 players owned by those 300 million Americans but I don't think many will.
Any record company is free to make their music exclusively available on a service that is incompatible with 75% of the mp3 players owned by those 300 million Americans but I don't think many will.
carmenodie
Mar 31, 05:53 PM
Let me tell you the real deal behind this.
Google gave away the Android OS for free because they wanted Android on as many cell phones as possible so they could capitalize on that whole click an ad sh** that generates Google so much money in the phone space. And of curse the cell phone makers happily got on the bandwagon b/c they didn't have to spend millions making their own effing OS. As long as they followed the licensing agreement they were fine.
Now Google has pulled the rug from under them. Google knows that hundreds of millions have been spent by the cell makers in their commitment to Android devices. Advertising, new models etc. A whole lot of cash. Now Google wants tighter control as if they OWN these cell phone makers.And who ever doesn't want to play ball can go to hell as far as Google is concerned.
Right now HTC, LG, Sammy and Moto look like bi***!
Ha ha! But not Apple.
Ain't it awesome to row your own damn boat.
Google gave away the Android OS for free because they wanted Android on as many cell phones as possible so they could capitalize on that whole click an ad sh** that generates Google so much money in the phone space. And of curse the cell phone makers happily got on the bandwagon b/c they didn't have to spend millions making their own effing OS. As long as they followed the licensing agreement they were fine.
Now Google has pulled the rug from under them. Google knows that hundreds of millions have been spent by the cell makers in their commitment to Android devices. Advertising, new models etc. A whole lot of cash. Now Google wants tighter control as if they OWN these cell phone makers.And who ever doesn't want to play ball can go to hell as far as Google is concerned.
Right now HTC, LG, Sammy and Moto look like bi***!
Ha ha! But not Apple.
Ain't it awesome to row your own damn boat.
70355
Aug 7, 05:24 PM
Ahh, but that was a different situation. In that case, Steve said that, but was dependent on IBM to make it come true.
Did someone put a gun to Jobs' head and make him use IBM?
Did someone put a gun to Jobs' head and make him use IBM?
iMikeT
Aug 17, 03:28 PM
I'll just wait until the 4GHZ Mac Pro. I wonder what that bad boy can do.:rolleyes:
nukiduz
Aug 7, 05:15 PM
From Vista Help:
"Previous versions of files and folders are copies that Windows automatically saves as part of a restore point. Any file or folder that was modified since the last restore point was made (usually 24 hours earlier) is saved and made available as a previous version. You can use previous versions of files to restore files that you accidentally modified or deleted, or that were damaged."
I can use this now but without childish animations. Simple right-click the folder and select "restore previous versions".
For me the Leopard preview was a big disappointment. No innovative features but silly Vista bashing all the time. Come on, Apple!
What about flash drives? Meta data organisation in Finder? Media streams over local networks? Better window management? Spaces is the next answere to the incomplete Dockbar-conception (Expos� was the first and Time Maschine is a next interface ornateness).
Preview and network-wide search in Spotlight? Who is copying here?
I can't believe that: but now Vista looks innovativ!
i completely agree. just hope that the top secret thing makes us think other way.
"Previous versions of files and folders are copies that Windows automatically saves as part of a restore point. Any file or folder that was modified since the last restore point was made (usually 24 hours earlier) is saved and made available as a previous version. You can use previous versions of files to restore files that you accidentally modified or deleted, or that were damaged."
I can use this now but without childish animations. Simple right-click the folder and select "restore previous versions".
For me the Leopard preview was a big disappointment. No innovative features but silly Vista bashing all the time. Come on, Apple!
What about flash drives? Meta data organisation in Finder? Media streams over local networks? Better window management? Spaces is the next answere to the incomplete Dockbar-conception (Expos� was the first and Time Maschine is a next interface ornateness).
Preview and network-wide search in Spotlight? Who is copying here?
I can't believe that: but now Vista looks innovativ!
i completely agree. just hope that the top secret thing makes us think other way.
Oflife
Apr 8, 06:31 AM
Retailers create am impression of demand (as do the vendors sometimes, in particular Nintendo who mastered the art of 'selling out' of gear prior to Christmas) when they had plenty in the warehouse. Retailers also pretend to be low on stock too, so you buy an item because you were told "Ah, the system is showing just one left."
As we say in the UK, "Utter bollocks!"
:mad:
As we say in the UK, "Utter bollocks!"
:mad:
tmofee
Mar 25, 10:44 PM
i wonder if apple will release a version in the app store???
Dr.Gargoyle
Aug 11, 03:48 PM
I standby my assumption that the amount of internet usage is probably a good gauge of cell phone usage.
I am sure you are...
Care to dispute, then provide your own "facts".
My assumption (http://www.gsmworld.com/index.shtml). I was wrong. It is not 81%, it is 82%. Sorry, I will check my sources better next time.
I am sure you are...
Care to dispute, then provide your own "facts".
My assumption (http://www.gsmworld.com/index.shtml). I was wrong. It is not 81%, it is 82%. Sorry, I will check my sources better next time.
.jpg "Clinton cleavage (Fashion")
TsMkLg068426
Apr 25, 03:23 PM
OH ****! GOOGLE AND MICROSOFT FANBOYS ARE MAD! U MUST SUE APPLE NOW! LOL!:p:apple:
fivepoint
Apr 27, 02:27 PM
I am fairly confident that rather than pointing to a conspiracy, this simply shows that when scanned, the operator had enabled some sort of "auto-text" option that attempted to read and convert then embed the raw text info in the PDF, as to make the text "selectable" in preview programs.
It only worked on certain text, as is par for the course.
Hopefully you're not insinuating that I am pointing to a conspiracy, I'm pretty sure I was quite clear on that account.
As for the 'auto-text' thing... interesting, why though would the several dates, etc. be on separate layers? And why would the signatures be separate from the typed text? Just slightly different colorations? My only thought was that the thing was retouched in order to improve the appearance of a poor quality scan... but why would they be so sloppy in reassembling? Why not make it a single layer image before releasing? I don't buy that it was simply overlooked... It's the White House for crying out loud. It's as if they WANT they want the controversy to continue???
It only worked on certain text, as is par for the course.
Hopefully you're not insinuating that I am pointing to a conspiracy, I'm pretty sure I was quite clear on that account.
As for the 'auto-text' thing... interesting, why though would the several dates, etc. be on separate layers? And why would the signatures be separate from the typed text? Just slightly different colorations? My only thought was that the thing was retouched in order to improve the appearance of a poor quality scan... but why would they be so sloppy in reassembling? Why not make it a single layer image before releasing? I don't buy that it was simply overlooked... It's the White House for crying out loud. It's as if they WANT they want the controversy to continue???
bushido
Apr 11, 04:27 PM
i got the iPhone 4 but also got a new Android because i'm sick of the same old school UI after 3 iPhones and i LOVE my android experience, sure i still use my iPhone 4 for some apps i can't get on the android, but apps r really the only thing that still saves the iPhone. of course its stupid to argue about that on a "mac"rumors site, so i'll just ***** up ^^
satty
Jul 20, 08:48 AM
At some point your going to have deminished returns. Sure multimedia apps can take advantage of a few more cores, but I dont see Mail running faster on 4 cores, nevermind 2! The nice thing about intel is that they seem to realise that, and have invested in improved IO as well, look at Pci express and SATA, you can have the fastest processor in the world, but if your running it with 512megs of memory your going to slow down fast!
And it#39;s Hillary Clinton,
Michelle Obama fashion VS.
PHOTO: Hillary#39;s Questionable
The First Lady Shines In India
A little less cleavage,
while Hilary Clinton
skunk
Mar 3, 01:28 PM
But, but, but we'll have nobody to argue with... :(
MyDesktopBroke
Mar 24, 10:48 AM
Amazing to see how most Democrats are willing to lie to themselves and ignore the hypocritical truth all around them... the leftist side of the antiwar movement is all but gone, but not because the policies have changed, only because the man has changed.
What Happened to the Antiwar Movement? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=N_VHEts3fqk)
How does that Nobel Peace Prize taste now? Hopey? Changey?
This is cherry picking. As I pointed out earlier, even liberal sites like DailyKos and HuffPo (as well as NYT, MSNBC, etc.) are running critical cases against intervention and Obama's "imperial" (HuffPo) tactics. Dennis Kucinich even said Obama had committed an impeachable offense.
Also, what about Mr. Gingrich (and just about every other GoP bigwig), who a week ago, before Obama had taken action, was blasting the president for letting the Libyan people suffer? Then as soon as Obama acts, Newt blasts him for that, too. (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/03/23/959400/-Newt-Gingrich-flip-flops-on-Libya-bigtime)
The right pro-war machine is all but gone. The policies haven't changed, but the party of the president has.
What Happened to the Antiwar Movement? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=N_VHEts3fqk)
How does that Nobel Peace Prize taste now? Hopey? Changey?
This is cherry picking. As I pointed out earlier, even liberal sites like DailyKos and HuffPo (as well as NYT, MSNBC, etc.) are running critical cases against intervention and Obama's "imperial" (HuffPo) tactics. Dennis Kucinich even said Obama had committed an impeachable offense.
Also, what about Mr. Gingrich (and just about every other GoP bigwig), who a week ago, before Obama had taken action, was blasting the president for letting the Libyan people suffer? Then as soon as Obama acts, Newt blasts him for that, too. (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/03/23/959400/-Newt-Gingrich-flip-flops-on-Libya-bigtime)
The right pro-war machine is all but gone. The policies haven't changed, but the party of the president has.
DotCom2
Apr 27, 09:25 AM
Problem is, if you turn "Location Services" off, then you can't use "Find My iPhone" which I think is quite a useful feature! :(
shelterpaw
Jul 20, 11:02 AM
All these rumors are making it so hard to decide when to get a new computer... my desktop and laptop are both about five years old. Though I don't have an urgent need to get a new ones, something new would surely be nice and useful. You essentially answered your own question. Get it when you need it, if you don't need it, then don't bother. If you're upgrading your apps in the next year or so, then it may make sense, but if you're not, then stay where you are. New is always nice until 6 months later when it's not so new and something nicer comes along.
Personally, I wouldn't hold out for some super ultra machine becuase the super ultramachine x2 will be around the corner. . If it fits my needs, then it's the choice I'll make.
Personally, I wouldn't hold out for some super ultra machine becuase the super ultramachine x2 will be around the corner. . If it fits my needs, then it's the choice I'll make.
63dot
Aug 17, 05:33 PM
With no intention of jumping into the argument in question here, I have a slight issue with your definition of a gamer. I'm an intermediate photoshop user, web designer, and gamer. I don't just use my computer for games or work, there's this huge gray area in the middle. For me, the Mac Pro is the best of all worlds. I wouldn't dare rely on Windows for my workflow, design, and productivity software, OS X is a must for me. However, the ability to duat boot into Windows and play games natively is a bonus, one that I'm willing to pay a premium for, and whether or not it's even a premium is up for debate. Sure, I could build a PC just for games but if I can't run OS X ever then that machine is useless for me.
I'd be surprised if there weren't many more people out there who welcome the power of the Mac Pros for work and play, recognizing of course that the majority of buyers will be professionals.
well said
as for xp vs. os x, i can live with xp if i had to and do the adobe stuff on it, but i would always be looking over my shoulder for viruses and junk filling up my machine every time i went online
i would also have to invest in a virus suite and keep the darn thing updated all the time
all i have ever put on macs has been anti-virus and have never run into any problems and as for even seeing a virus on an unprotected mac, as a tech for 7 years, i haven't
i do love that "mac dude and pc dude" commercial campaign that apple has been putting out and i hope some pc only users see the light
I'd be surprised if there weren't many more people out there who welcome the power of the Mac Pros for work and play, recognizing of course that the majority of buyers will be professionals.
well said
as for xp vs. os x, i can live with xp if i had to and do the adobe stuff on it, but i would always be looking over my shoulder for viruses and junk filling up my machine every time i went online
i would also have to invest in a virus suite and keep the darn thing updated all the time
all i have ever put on macs has been anti-virus and have never run into any problems and as for even seeing a virus on an unprotected mac, as a tech for 7 years, i haven't
i do love that "mac dude and pc dude" commercial campaign that apple has been putting out and i hope some pc only users see the light
ghall
Aug 25, 02:59 PM
Hey, I'm not about to complain, they sent me a brand new MacBook Pro (even though I was on hold for an hour). Yeah, I have certainly noticed longer hold times on the support lines. Crazy, huh?
blahblah100
Mar 31, 05:27 PM
The amount of people who never bought an Apple product, but will still log-on to blast away at anything Apple is really quite amusing. ;)
The amount of people who never bought a Microsoft product, but will still log-on to blast away at anything Microsoft is really quite amusing. ;)
Unfortunately, it goes both ways.
The amount of people who never bought a Microsoft product, but will still log-on to blast away at anything Microsoft is really quite amusing. ;)
Unfortunately, it goes both ways.
jettredmont
Apr 10, 05:47 PM
A bit of selective hearing on the part of MacRumors with the quotes they chose to use. At first the video sounds great, dude is hyping what he saw from Apple. But later he gets called out from another speculating Apple is making a very significant change and distancing Final Cut from the real 'pro' users, dumbing it down, etc, and the guy who has seen it gets real quiet.. He is asked if he will update his editing studio's workflow to the new Final Cut, and he basically danced around the question, pleaded the 5th, and made it pretty clear that he is holding back some reservations about how the industry will adapt to the changes.
I'm assuming you've never dealt with Apple, or probably any NDA situation. In "leaking" this information, I'm sure he thought very carefully about what he was going to say and how, in order to stay within his NDA and on the "good side" of Apple. He rehearsed that (I'm sure the quotes weren't summoned on the spot), and presented what he'd rehearsed. This approach makes sure you get the most cool information out there without stepping over bounds. However, it leaves nothing for Q&A, as you see here. No, he won't say he'll commit to a new FCP workflow because he's not sure if he should acknowledge any kind of new workflow. He can't talk about if the interface has been "dumbed down" because discussing that intelligently ("dumbing down" is not exactly a precisely defined term) would require going into details on the interface he was likely expressly forbidden from discussing.
Personally I'm very interested to see what they do, I'm sure it will have huge improvements on real time rendering and performance, sounds like the whole thing is being rewritten. But it does worry me that the program could become more for mass audience and no longer the pro application it has been for the past decade.
No sense in debating before it's revealed, but I'd welcome a few "mass audience" nods so long as they enhance existing workflows. The last couple releases have had several features which catered to the "mass audience" more than to the "FCP Expert" audience, and I think they've made a much stronger product. IMHO, what is needed here is really a deep-down codebase cleanout, but any interface improvements would be nice.
I'm assuming you've never dealt with Apple, or probably any NDA situation. In "leaking" this information, I'm sure he thought very carefully about what he was going to say and how, in order to stay within his NDA and on the "good side" of Apple. He rehearsed that (I'm sure the quotes weren't summoned on the spot), and presented what he'd rehearsed. This approach makes sure you get the most cool information out there without stepping over bounds. However, it leaves nothing for Q&A, as you see here. No, he won't say he'll commit to a new FCP workflow because he's not sure if he should acknowledge any kind of new workflow. He can't talk about if the interface has been "dumbed down" because discussing that intelligently ("dumbing down" is not exactly a precisely defined term) would require going into details on the interface he was likely expressly forbidden from discussing.
Personally I'm very interested to see what they do, I'm sure it will have huge improvements on real time rendering and performance, sounds like the whole thing is being rewritten. But it does worry me that the program could become more for mass audience and no longer the pro application it has been for the past decade.
No sense in debating before it's revealed, but I'd welcome a few "mass audience" nods so long as they enhance existing workflows. The last couple releases have had several features which catered to the "mass audience" more than to the "FCP Expert" audience, and I think they've made a much stronger product. IMHO, what is needed here is really a deep-down codebase cleanout, but any interface improvements would be nice.
Multimedia
Aug 21, 05:43 AM
I stopped by the Apple store tonight to play with a Macpro. I'm getting ready to buy and thought I'd get some hands on experience to see how it performed with Finalcut Pro. I was especially interested in how it handles playback of uncompressed footage.
The store had a 2.6 hooked up to a 30"ACD. Everything on the machine was stock. I launched FCP and it appeared with a project already loaded (about 5 seconds). The project was a simple 20-30 second 720x480 NTSC clip of hockey game footage. I selected the clip and copied it to a new layer and threw a blend mode on it AND changed the speed to 85%. Next I copied and made another layer and changed the speed and offset it and changed the transparency to 80%. 3 layers total with the top two manipulated. I hit the render and it finished in about 30 seconds. :)
I know, not very scientific, but I just wanted to get a feel for how fast the Macpro would render manipulated footage. Anyhow, next I changed the output in project settings to "uncompressed" and hit render again. Again, it took less than a minute to render and the CPU usage in console was maxing out at only 42% per core.
Once the render completed, I hit the play button to see how the stock Macpro would handle playback of the uncompressed footage. It played for about 4 seconds then threw an error saying that frames were being dropped during playback. Not good. I was hoping that the Macpro would be able to play uncompressed footage from the timeline without 3rd party acceleration or setting up a raid. The error message suggested turning off RT effects (of which I did, but still had dropped frames) or get a faster drive. There was a couple other things the error suggested, but I can't remember at the moment. I wonder if having the ATI card would have made a difference? Not sure if FCP uses the GPU for playback, but I would think that should make a difference. Ram would probably help too. Anyone know what might be going on? Am I expecting too much out of this machine?
Sorry for sort of getting off topic. I thought this might be an appropriate area to post this; I wasn't feeling up to starting a new thread.That's great info. Would you please tell us:
1. How fast that is compared to what Mac model-speed you are currently using?
2. IE Were you impressed or not so impressed with how fast-slow it rendered?
3. What kind of speed were you expecting?
I'm no expert, but my guess is that the lack of RAM may have been the culprit. Need more independent tests like this from other FCP users. Thanks a lot. :)
The store had a 2.6 hooked up to a 30"ACD. Everything on the machine was stock. I launched FCP and it appeared with a project already loaded (about 5 seconds). The project was a simple 20-30 second 720x480 NTSC clip of hockey game footage. I selected the clip and copied it to a new layer and threw a blend mode on it AND changed the speed to 85%. Next I copied and made another layer and changed the speed and offset it and changed the transparency to 80%. 3 layers total with the top two manipulated. I hit the render and it finished in about 30 seconds. :)
I know, not very scientific, but I just wanted to get a feel for how fast the Macpro would render manipulated footage. Anyhow, next I changed the output in project settings to "uncompressed" and hit render again. Again, it took less than a minute to render and the CPU usage in console was maxing out at only 42% per core.
Once the render completed, I hit the play button to see how the stock Macpro would handle playback of the uncompressed footage. It played for about 4 seconds then threw an error saying that frames were being dropped during playback. Not good. I was hoping that the Macpro would be able to play uncompressed footage from the timeline without 3rd party acceleration or setting up a raid. The error message suggested turning off RT effects (of which I did, but still had dropped frames) or get a faster drive. There was a couple other things the error suggested, but I can't remember at the moment. I wonder if having the ATI card would have made a difference? Not sure if FCP uses the GPU for playback, but I would think that should make a difference. Ram would probably help too. Anyone know what might be going on? Am I expecting too much out of this machine?
Sorry for sort of getting off topic. I thought this might be an appropriate area to post this; I wasn't feeling up to starting a new thread.That's great info. Would you please tell us:
1. How fast that is compared to what Mac model-speed you are currently using?
2. IE Were you impressed or not so impressed with how fast-slow it rendered?
3. What kind of speed were you expecting?
I'm no expert, but my guess is that the lack of RAM may have been the culprit. Need more independent tests like this from other FCP users. Thanks a lot. :)
Popeye206
Mar 22, 08:01 PM
My take...
Competition is good.
It will be interesting to see if the Playbook sticks. RIM is losing ground in so many areas and from what my daughter says (who works for one of the cell phone companies) that even with all the nice new goodies in BB's, that they are the smart phone that makes them all grimace. She says it's by far the worst phone to activate to trouble shoot. So, will the Playbook be any different?
Samsung... could they have rushed that one out any quicker? They seem desperate to get a tablet to sell. So much for quality control I'm sure.
Is the new Xoom about ready to be run over two minutes out the gate by other Android devices?
From what I can see, the most damage is not going to come in the Apple arena... the iPad is different with iOS, it's proven (15 million sold and growing fast)... it's going to be the other Android devices. Each of them fighting for a small share of customers who don't want Apple.
I honestly believe most consumers care less about the specs. The geeks on this site do.... but the average person does not care. They care about what they hear and see. They see iPads flying out the door. They know the iPad is slick and works.
I'll go with the Analysts on this one... by the end of Apple will own 70-80% market share and the rest will be a mixed bag of struggling tablet makers.
Competition is good.
It will be interesting to see if the Playbook sticks. RIM is losing ground in so many areas and from what my daughter says (who works for one of the cell phone companies) that even with all the nice new goodies in BB's, that they are the smart phone that makes them all grimace. She says it's by far the worst phone to activate to trouble shoot. So, will the Playbook be any different?
Samsung... could they have rushed that one out any quicker? They seem desperate to get a tablet to sell. So much for quality control I'm sure.
Is the new Xoom about ready to be run over two minutes out the gate by other Android devices?
From what I can see, the most damage is not going to come in the Apple arena... the iPad is different with iOS, it's proven (15 million sold and growing fast)... it's going to be the other Android devices. Each of them fighting for a small share of customers who don't want Apple.
I honestly believe most consumers care less about the specs. The geeks on this site do.... but the average person does not care. They care about what they hear and see. They see iPads flying out the door. They know the iPad is slick and works.
I'll go with the Analysts on this one... by the end of Apple will own 70-80% market share and the rest will be a mixed bag of struggling tablet makers.
SuperCachetes
Mar 4, 12:02 AM
Sure, different people have different experiences. That's partly why some people feel same-sex attractions and why others feel opposite-sex attractions. Macaroony doesn't see any point in opposite-sex attractions. I don't see any point in same-sex attractions.
And yet I doubt Macaroony sees opposite-sex attractions as immoral or placing oneself in grave danger. I know what your religious beliefs tell you, and it is your right to follow those as explicitly as you are legally able. But why does that have to impact the rest of the world when you know many of them share different beliefs and have different experiences?
Personally, I think people who believe in gods are weak-minded fools. But I would never support a law that mandated atheism or banned religious gatherings. Because these religious things, while they are not in line with my worldview, do not impact my way of life directly, and allow people to live how they think they need to, not how I think they need to.
Invalid because it endorses something that could cause the collapse of society
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and venture a guess that you don't have a non-biased fact source for a retarded statement like that. :rolleyes:
And yet I doubt Macaroony sees opposite-sex attractions as immoral or placing oneself in grave danger. I know what your religious beliefs tell you, and it is your right to follow those as explicitly as you are legally able. But why does that have to impact the rest of the world when you know many of them share different beliefs and have different experiences?
Personally, I think people who believe in gods are weak-minded fools. But I would never support a law that mandated atheism or banned religious gatherings. Because these religious things, while they are not in line with my worldview, do not impact my way of life directly, and allow people to live how they think they need to, not how I think they need to.
Invalid because it endorses something that could cause the collapse of society
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and venture a guess that you don't have a non-biased fact source for a retarded statement like that. :rolleyes:
